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Reply #330 posted 02/23/19 9:06am

Bodhitheblackd
og

leec1 said:

Menes said:

If anyone has the time and can let me know which of the pills was the crushed up or half pill in the tissue next to the bed, I would appreciate that very much. Also, were all of the half pills the fentanyl pills ? 'Till tomorrow.

Hi Menes:

Good to see you are back.

I checked Investigation Report No. 1 (Pages 14-15) and it didn't show a pill in tissue next to the bed.

There were pills mentioned found in tissue paper in the jewelry box. Would this be the pills you are referring to?

and, to stir the pot, there was a pill tangled up in his bedding sad

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Reply #331 posted 02/23/19 11:06am

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

If anyone has the time and can let me know which of the pills was the crushed up or half pill in the tissue next to the bed, I would appreciate that very much. Also, were all of the half pills the fentanyl pills ? 'Till tomorrow.

Hi Menes:

Good to see you are back.

I checked Investigation Report No. 1 (Pages 14-15) and it didn't show a pill in tissue next to the bed.

There were pills mentioned found in tissue paper in the jewelry box. Would this be the pills you are referring to?

Thanks for the welcome.

I think those are the same pills that were next to bed in his bedroom (possibly in jewelry box next to the bed)? I don't recall where they were exactly. What are those pills in the tissue in the jewelry box ( vicodin, fentanyl)?

Concerning the fentanyl pills w/lidocaine, were some of them halved or were all of them whole?

This will give us a very good idea of dosing as well as whether or not there was an escalation within those 7 days. He should not have been functional at all during those 7 days with such amounts of combined loads right after an overdose. . He should have been out of it. For all practical purposes, dead. Which brings me to the path of trying to make some sense of it all.

I am on to the metabolic rates of each . As I've posted before, there is great suspicion that this was not a random buy, nor a one and off. It seems very calculated.



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Reply #332 posted 02/23/19 12:08pm

Menes

Just a quick note.

The amount of hydromorphone (dialudid) reported to be in Prince' system from the test on 4-20 was 87 ng/ml? That is well within range of what is considered capable of producing a fatal concentration. In addition, Hydrocodone, ( vicodin?) is the mixed combination used with the dialudid. I don't see anything that would show the use of percocet (oxycodone-acetaminophen?) although there seems to be pills missing.He must have taken those between the 14th and the 17th and excreted it before the 20th. *More than likely in Atlanta or thereabouts.



The purpose of this study was to identify those cases that would provide the most probative information in hydromorphone-related fatalities, particularly at concentrations less than 100 ng/mL [the lowest reported concentration in a hy- dromorphone-attributed fatality (7)]. The case history and analytical findings for each case were reviewed. Exclusion of cases from the more in depth assessment included the pres- ence of a toxic or fatal drug concentration other than hydro- morphone, collection of a blood sample that was not from an intact blood vessel, cases where histories were incomplete, or if traces (between 7 and 15 ng/mL) of hydromorphone were detected. The number of cases that were excluded was 218.


Results

Between 1985 and 2003, hydromorphone was detected in 251 coroner's death investigation cases (Figure 1). Hydromorphone-positive cases increased in prevalence over the time frame studied and peaked in the final year examined with 63 cases in 2003. There were three years occurring at the beginning of the period studied (1986-1988) where hydro- morphone was not identified in any of the samples analyzed during those years.

Cases (n = 4) where full toxicology drug screening was performed and hydromorphone was the sole drug detected ranged in concentration from 77 to 2684 ng/mL (TableI). Table II lists cases (n = 6) where hydromorphone

and ethanol were the only drugs detected. The hydromorphone concentrations ranged from 65 to 163 ng/mL, whereas blood and urine ethanol concentrations ranged from 0.020 to 0.284 g/100 mLand 0.144to 0.369 g/100 mL, respectively.Cases (n = 22) wheredrugs other than hydromorphone would, in isolation, be considered therapeutic or incidental findings are presented in TableIII. In these cases, the hydromorphone concentrations ranged from 21 to 441 ng/mL.


There's more information but my guess is that fatalities can, and do occur ,at 87ng/ml .

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Reply #333 posted 02/23/19 12:09pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Image may contain: indoor


No photo description available.


Image may contain: indoor

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
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Reply #334 posted 02/23/19 12:11pm

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

Hi Menes:

Good to see you are back.

I checked Investigation Report No. 1 (Pages 14-15) and it didn't show a pill in tissue next to the bed.

There were pills mentioned found in tissue paper in the jewelry box. Would this be the pills you are referring to?

Thanks for the welcome.

I think those are the same pills that were next to bed in his bedroom (possibly in jewelry box next to the bed)? I don't recall where they were exactly. What are those pills in the tissue in the jewelry box ( vicodin, fentanyl)?

Concerning the fentanyl pills w/lidocaine, were some of them halved or were all of them whole?

This will give us a very good idea of dosing as well as whether or not there was an escalation within those 7 days. He should not have been functional at all during those 7 days with such amounts of combined loads right after an overdose. . He should have been out of it. For all practical purposes, dead. Which brings me to the path of trying to make some sense of it all.

I am on to the metabolic rates of each . As I've posted before, there is great suspicion that this was not a random buy, nor a one and off. It seems very calculated.



I checked the evidence log in Investigation Report No. 1 and then the test results in Investigation Report No. 2 and I find the following.

A. Pills on the nightstand in Bayer bottle totalling 64 1/2 pills stamped Watson 853- these are the pills that are fentanyl and lidocaine that were sent to the DEA to see if they could determine if they had seen similar pills with this composition. The DEA stated they didn't see this pill composition previously but that didn't seem to odd to them because they have experience of finding pills that have been mixed with whatever is available.

B. Pills found in the second floor dressing room in white tissue paper in the jewelry box totalling 15 pills stamped Watson 853- these pills were fentanyl when tested

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Reply #335 posted 02/23/19 12:17pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Image may contain: one or more people and people sitting


No photo description available.

Image may contain: indoor

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Reply #336 posted 02/23/19 12:23pm

PennyPurple

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No photo description available.

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Reply #337 posted 02/23/19 12:24pm

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Thanks for the welcome.

I think those are the same pills that were next to bed in his bedroom (possibly in jewelry box next to the bed)? I don't recall where they were exactly. What are those pills in the tissue in the jewelry box ( vicodin, fentanyl)?

Concerning the fentanyl pills w/lidocaine, were some of them halved or were all of them whole?

This will give us a very good idea of dosing as well as whether or not there was an escalation within those 7 days. He should not have been functional at all during those 7 days with such amounts of combined loads right after an overdose. . He should have been out of it. For all practical purposes, dead. Which brings me to the path of trying to make some sense of it all.

I am on to the metabolic rates of each . As I've posted before, there is great suspicion that this was not a random buy, nor a one and off. It seems very calculated.



I checked the evidence log in Investigation Report No. 1 and then the test results in Investigation Report No. 2 and I find the following.

A. Pills on the nightstand in Bayer bottle totalling 64 1/2 pills stamped Watson 853- these are the pills that are fentanyl and lidocaine that were sent to the DEA to see if they could determine if they had seen similar pills with this composition. The DEA stated they didn't see this pill composition previously but that didn't seem to odd to them because they have experience of finding pills that have been mixed with whatever is available.

B. Pills found in the second floor dressing room in white tissue paper in the jewelry box totalling 15 pills stamped Watson 853- these pills were fentanyl when tested

Were any of the fentanyl pills halved? If not, which pills were halved? Dialudid pills maybe?

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Reply #338 posted 02/23/19 12:25pm

Menes

PennyPurple said:

48389850_469889503538843_5575815380770750464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQlb_FSDJlbCPr1t57uT4skUIHmppR9UKcyDBnU2NNL0jzUu3VLwunaTpQ5aUTtY9lwarOIH4ofCQxxSqJPtU4hE&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=b134d408c14e65ee26dfda1c3ff26638&oe=5CEFAEBD

Hi Penny, I assume these are you personal notes? Can you tell me which pills were halved? Thanks.

[Edited 2/23/19 12:32pm]

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Reply #339 posted 02/23/19 12:28pm

PennyPurple

avatar

No, these are the detective notes, I'll try to find the 1/2 pills though.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

No photo description available.

Hi Peny, I assume these are you personal notes? Can you tell me which pills were halved? Thanks.

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #340 posted 02/23/19 12:29pm

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

I checked the evidence log in Investigation Report No. 1 and then the test results in Investigation Report No. 2 and I find the following.

A. Pills on the nightstand in Bayer bottle totalling 64 1/2 pills stamped Watson 853- these are the pills that are fentanyl and lidocaine that were sent to the DEA to see if they could determine if they had seen similar pills with this composition. The DEA stated they didn't see this pill composition previously but that didn't seem to odd to them because they have experience of finding pills that have been mixed with whatever is available.

B. Pills found in the second floor dressing room in white tissue paper in the jewelry box totalling 15 pills stamped Watson 853- these pills were fentanyl when tested

Were any of the fentanyl pills halved? If not, which pills were halved? Dialudid pills maybe?

The pills in the Bayer bottle were halved which tested to be fentanyl and lidocaine.

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Reply #341 posted 02/23/19 12:35pm

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Were any of the fentanyl pills halved? If not, which pills were halved? Dialudid pills maybe?

The pills in the Bayer bottle were halved which tested to be fentanyl and lidocaine.

Good work, Leec1. So we can assume that he is dosing( at the very least with the fentanyl) and not being indiscriminate about it. Did you find out if any other pill was halved?

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Reply #342 posted 02/23/19 12:36pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Aleve bottle 20 1/2 marked Watson 853

Bayer Bottle 64 1/4 marked Watson 853

15 whole pills in jewelry box marked Watson 853

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #343 posted 02/23/19 12:37pm

Menes

PennyPurple said:

No, these are the detective notes, I'll try to find the 1/2 pills though.

Menes said:

Hi Peny, I assume these are you personal notes? Can you tell me which pills were halved? Thanks.

Oh, sorry. Thought those were yours. I think Leec1 answered the question. Would still like to know if they were any other half pill that were not fentanyl/lidocaine. This wlil be a very important clue.

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Reply #344 posted 02/23/19 12:40pm

PennyPurple

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No photo description available.

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
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Reply #345 posted 02/23/19 12:46pm

Menes

PennyPurple said:

Aleve bottle 20 1/2 marked Watson 853

Bayer Bottle 64 1/4 marked Watson 853

15 whole pills in jewelry box marked Watson 853

So, the bayer bottle ( fenatanyl /lidocaine) is halved.

The 15 pills ( fentanyl only, or fentanyl/lidocaine) were halved?

And the pills in the Aleve contain what ? Are they half as well?

[Edited 2/23/19 12:47pm]

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Reply #346 posted 02/23/19 12:49pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Aleve bottle 20 1/2 marked Watson 853

Bayer Bottle 64 1/4 marked Watson 853

15 whole pills in jewelry box marked Watson 853

So, the bayer bottle ( fenatanyl /lidocaine) is halved.

The 15 pills ( fentanyl only, or fentanyl/lidocaine) were halved?

And the pills in the Aleve contain what ? Are they half as well?

[Edited 2/23/19 12:47pm]

No the jewelry box 15 were whole

Aleve bottle 20 whole pills & 1/2 of a pill

Bayer 64 whole pills and 1/4 of a pill

[Edited 2/23/19 12:51pm]

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #347 posted 02/23/19 12:52pm

Menes

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

So, the bayer bottle ( fenatanyl /lidocaine) is halved.

The 15 pills ( fentanyl only, or fentanyl/lidocaine) were halved?

And the pills in the Aleve contain what ? Are they half as well?

[Edited 2/23/19 12:47pm]

No the jewelry box 15 were whole

Aleve bottle 20 & 1/2

Bayer 64 and 1/4

So the aleve is all fent, correct? Were there any other pills beside the fentanyl/lidocaine pills that were half? Thanks for helping out.

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Reply #348 posted 02/23/19 12:54pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

No the jewelry box 15 were whole

Aleve bottle 20 & 1/2

Bayer 64 and 1/4

So the aleve is all fent, correct? Were there any other pills beside the fentanyl/lidocaine pills that were half? Thanks for helping out.

I'll have to go thru all that again, it will take some time I will probably have time tonight.

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #349 posted 02/23/19 1:01pm

Menes

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

So the aleve is all fent, correct? Were there any other pills beside the fentanyl/lidocaine pills that were half? Thanks for helping out.

I'll have to go thru all that again, it will take some time I will probably have time tonight.

Take your time. No rush at all. We are going to figure this out. Lots to work with.

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Reply #350 posted 02/23/19 1:06pm

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

The pills in the Bayer bottle were halved which tested to be fentanyl and lidocaine.

Good work, Leec1. So we can assume that he is dosing( at the very least with the fentanyl) and not being indiscriminate about it. Did you find out if any other pill was halved?

The pills in the Aleve bottle on the night stand totaling 20 pills were also halved. The pills were marked as Watson 853 but they tested to be fentanyl.

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Reply #351 posted 02/23/19 1:21pm

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Good work, Leec1. So we can assume that he is dosing( at the very least with the fentanyl) and not being indiscriminate about it. Did you find out if any other pill was halved?

The pills in the Aleve bottle on the night stand totaling 20 pills were also halved. The pills were marked as Watson 853 but they tested to be fentanyl.

Well, well, well. One thing left. Any other pill in that house was found to be half of itself? Very very important if you can find that.

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Reply #352 posted 02/23/19 1:28pm

Bodhitheblackd
og

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Good work, Leec1. So we can assume that he is dosing( at the very least with the fentanyl) and not being indiscriminate about it. Did you find out if any other pill was halved?

The pills in the Aleve bottle on the night stand totaling 20 pills were also halved. The pills were marked as Watson 853 but they tested to be fentanyl.

ON FIRE!!! grouphug

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Reply #353 posted 02/23/19 1:45pm

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

The pills in the Aleve bottle on the night stand totaling 20 pills were also halved. The pills were marked as Watson 853 but they tested to be fentanyl.

Well, well, well. One thing left. Any other pill in that house was found to be half of itself? Very very important if you can find that.

The only other halved pills I saw were 3 halved pills located in Room 6 in the black suitcase. There were 49 whole pills and 3 halved pills in this black suitcase and they were marked Watson 853.

I also just noticed that in the handwritten notes of the detective when they collected evidence that the pills in the Bayer bottle were described as 1/4 pills. However in the typewritten Investigation Files Reports Nos. 1 and 2 the pills in the Bayer bottle are described as 1/2 pills.

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Reply #354 posted 02/23/19 2:26pm

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Well, well, well. One thing left. Any other pill in that house was found to be half of itself? Very very important if you can find that.

The only other halved pills I saw were 3 halved pills located in Room 6 in the black suitcase. There were 49 whole pills and 3 halved pills in this black suitcase and they were marked Watson 853.

I also just noticed that in the handwritten notes of the detective when they collected evidence that the pills in the Bayer bottle were described as 1/4 pills. However in the typewritten Investigation Files Reports Nos. 1 and 2 the pills in the Bayer bottle are described as 1/2 pills.

Those (3) halved pills in room (6) that were located in the black suitcase... Did they state whether or not they are the same as the fentanyl/lidocaine pills in composition?

I am assuming that this is not the "black bag" carried off the plane by Kirk when they were in Moline , correct?

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Reply #355 posted 02/23/19 3:20pm

nelcp777

Menes said:



leec1 said:




Menes said:



Well, well, well. One thing left. Any other pill in that house was found to be half of itself? Very very important if you can find that.



The only other halved pills I saw were 3 halved pills located in Room 6 in the black suitcase. There were 49 whole pills and 3 halved pills in this black suitcase and they were marked Watson 853.



I also just noticed that in the handwritten notes of the detective when they collected evidence that the pills in the Bayer bottle were described as 1/4 pills. However in the typewritten Investigation Files Reports Nos. 1 and 2 the pills in the Bayer bottle are described as 1/2 pills.



Those (3) halved pills in room (6) that were located in the black suitcase... Did they state whether or not they are the same as the fentanyl/lidocaine pills in composition?

I am assuming that this is not the "black bag" carried off the plane by Kirk when they were in Moline , correct?


Percocets were fond in 4 half pills.
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Reply #356 posted 02/23/19 3:43pm

Bodhitheblackd
og

nelcp777 said:

Menes said:

Those (3) halved pills in room (6) that were located in the black suitcase... Did they state whether or not they are the same as the fentanyl/lidocaine pills in composition?

I am assuming that this is not the "black bag" carried off the plane by Kirk when they were in Moline , correct?

Percocets were fond in 4 half pills.

It sounds like he wasn't so far gone into his addiction that he was barely able to walk around PP when he was alone....not to mention ride his bike for a short while and throw a little party...BECAUSE he was totally aware that the percosets and his custom made Fent/ lidocaine combo were the deadly ones...

He was willing to cut the most powerful pills in half because he totally knew how the OD trip went.(I wonder how many times Kirk carried an unconscious Prince in his arms to get help) and that's why he wasn't afraid about doing what he wanted to do his last day. He knew exactly what he was doing, in control to the end.

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Reply #357 posted 02/23/19 3:48pm

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

The only other halved pills I saw were 3 halved pills located in Room 6 in the black suitcase. There were 49 whole pills and 3 halved pills in this black suitcase and they were marked Watson 853.

I also just noticed that in the handwritten notes of the detective when they collected evidence that the pills in the Bayer bottle were described as 1/4 pills. However in the typewritten Investigation Files Reports Nos. 1 and 2 the pills in the Bayer bottle are described as 1/2 pills.

Those (3) halved pills in room (6) that were located in the black suitcase... Did they state whether or not they are the same as the fentanyl/lidocaine pills in composition?

I am assuming that this is not the "black bag" carried off the plane by Kirk when they were in Moline , correct?

I haven't been able to locate any information yet on the testing of the pills in the black suitcase. These pills were in Room 6. This is not the black bag from Moline.

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Reply #358 posted 02/23/19 4:23pm

rednblue

Bodhitheblackdog said:

nelcp777 said:

Menes said: Percocets were fond in 4 half pills.

It sounds like he wasn't so far gone into his addiction that he was barely able to walk around PP when he was alone....not to mention ride his bike for a short while and throw a little party...BECAUSE he was totally aware that the percosets and his custom made Fent/ lidocaine combo were the deadly ones...

He was willing to cut the most powerful pills in half because he totally knew how the OD trip went.(I wonder how many times Kirk carried an unconscious Prince in his arms to get help) and that's why he wasn't afraid about doing what he wanted to do his last day. He knew exactly what he was doing, in control to the end.


It's almost universal that when it comes to where people want to be in life, the extent to which they are able to control how close to that targeted place they actually are, varies enormously over a lifetime.

At times, people do make controlled, conscious choices from a set of difficult, highly imperfect options.

I guess what I'm trying (not finding good words) to say is that although "successful control" varies from person to person, most everyone has times when they have some control, times when they have little control, and times when they're quite well in control.

Bodhi, if you don't mind my asking...

Do you think that the substance dose P was at times on, over his last decade, was the path and place he targeted, his choice path out of all the paths he could possibly have taken over that decade?

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Reply #359 posted 02/23/19 4:28pm

Menes

nelcp777 said:

Menes said:

Those (3) halved pills in room (6) that were located in the black suitcase... Did they state whether or not they are the same as the fentanyl/lidocaine pills in composition?

I am assuming that this is not the "black bag" carried off the plane by Kirk when they were in Moline , correct?

Percocets were fond in 4 half pills.

Ok, so we really have to nail this down as much as the report will allow because there are some competing information here. In reply #316, I think the numbers you came up with might be slightly off . In reply# 256, ISaidlife, may have a slightly different take on the numbers as it relates to the percocets. Maybe both are saying the same thing? I'm not sure. Can you check that and clarify for accuracy?

The numbes are critical and relevant to how much was taken and when. Thanks.

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