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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Musicology, 3121, and Planet Earth - [Pre-Order Available Now] - Part 2
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Reply #90 posted 02/18/19 5:15pm

johnnyribcage

RODSERLING said:

These reissues charted nowhere in the world, even in subcharts. Unless someone prove me wrong.
Not even In the top 40 UK vinyl charts
Ouch


I’m not really surprised. I’m not sure how much marketing would have helped, but they flew under the radar. I only found out when I randomly saw “Prince” on one of the music sales sites I subscribe to, like musicdirect or something. Even with advertising, these albums aren’t really for the casual Prince fan. They just aren’t.

They might have gotten some bigger numbers if they’d done a release in conjunction with a Record Store Day. I’m surprised they did these before some others to be honest. I can’t believe they made the cut before Diamonds and Pearls.
Bob... Ain't dat a bitch?
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Reply #91 posted 02/19/19 2:47am

embmmusic

avatar

johnnyribcage said:

RODSERLING said:
These reissues charted nowhere in the world, even in subcharts. Unless someone prove me wrong. Not even In the top 40 UK vinyl charts Ouch
I’m not really surprised. I’m not sure how much marketing would have helped, but they flew under the radar. I only found out when I randomly saw “Prince” on one of the music sales sites I subscribe to, like musicdirect or something. Even with advertising, these albums aren’t really for the casual Prince fan. They just aren’t. They might have gotten some bigger numbers if they’d done a release in conjunction with a Record Store Day. I’m surprised they did these before some others to be honest. I can’t believe they made the cut before Diamonds and Pearls.

D&P is still with Warners at the moment

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #92 posted 02/19/19 6:09am

PURPLEIZED3121

johnnyribcage said:

RODSERLING said:
These reissues charted nowhere in the world, even in subcharts. Unless someone prove me wrong. Not even In the top 40 UK vinyl charts Ouch
I’m not really surprised. I’m not sure how much marketing would have helped, but they flew under the radar. I only found out when I randomly saw “Prince” on one of the music sales sites I subscribe to, like musicdirect or something. Even with advertising, these albums aren’t really for the casual Prince fan. They just aren’t. They might have gotten some bigger numbers if they’d done a release in conjunction with a Record Store Day. I’m surprised they did these before some others to be honest. I can’t believe they made the cut before Diamonds and Pearls.

errrrr all 3 in the UK top 10.....

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/vinyl-albums-chart/

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Reply #93 posted 02/19/19 6:12am

PURPLEIZED3121

RODSERLING said:

These reissues charted nowhere in the world, even in subcharts. Unless someone prove me wrong. Not even In the top 40 UK vinyl charts Ouch

google it mate.

You seem to have a very unhealthy obession with sales figures & chart positions...kind of the BVH of stats!

3 years on from P passing...probably best to just let it go?

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Reply #94 posted 02/19/19 9:10am

darkroman

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

johnnyribcage said:

RODSERLING said: I’m not really surprised. I’m not sure how much marketing would have helped, but they flew under the radar. I only found out when I randomly saw “Prince” on one of the music sales sites I subscribe to, like musicdirect or something. Even with advertising, these albums aren’t really for the casual Prince fan. They just aren’t. They might have gotten some bigger numbers if they’d done a release in conjunction with a Record Store Day. I’m surprised they did these before some others to be honest. I can’t believe they made the cut before Diamonds and Pearls.

errrrr all 3 in the UK top 10.....

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/vinyl-albums-chart/


I was excited for a moment to see Prince with THREE top 10 albums, but that chart is missleading as it is just a Vinyl chart, which is easy to achieve as there is little competition and low volumes sad

So in fact his first week chart positions for ALL combined formats is.... drumroll... NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 100!

Very disappointing indeed sad

cry disbelief disbelief disbelief

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Reply #95 posted 02/19/19 9:51am

PURPLEIZED3121

darkroman said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

errrrr all 3 in the UK top 10.....

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/vinyl-albums-chart/


I was excited for a moment to see Prince with THREE top 10 albums, but that chart is missleading as it is just a Vinyl chart, which is easy to achieve as there is little competition and low volumes sad

So in fact his first week chart positions for ALL combined formats is.... drumroll... NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 100!

Very disappointing indeed sad

cry disbelief disbelief disbelief

not really though is it. It's a catalogue seller, longer term getting as many albums as poss back in circulation is half decent commercial thinking. A short term sales burst is nice but with these now being in print & available they will be around to buy in steady numbers for years.

Still hugely disappointing that the liner notes aren't extended & at least 1 bonus track per album was not added. Therefore I am 100% not buying.

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Reply #96 posted 02/19/19 11:52am

darkroman

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

darkroman said:


I was excited for a moment to see Prince with THREE top 10 albums, but that chart is missleading as it is just a Vinyl chart, which is easy to achieve as there is little competition and low volumes sad

So in fact his first week chart positions for ALL combined formats is.... drumroll... NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 100!

Very disappointing indeed sad

cry disbelief disbelief disbelief

not really though is it. It's a catalogue seller, longer term getting as many albums as poss back in circulation is half decent commercial thinking. A short term sales burst is nice but with these now being in print & available they will be around to buy in steady numbers for years.

Still hugely disappointing that the liner notes aren't extended & at least 1 bonus track per album was not added. Therefore I am 100% not buying.


It's also a great shame no booklet has been added to Planet Earth. Surely they could have for once considered the fans rather than their pocket!

However I'm please the sound level has been fixed on Musicology.

The Musicology CD was always very low but at least now it is the same volume as 3121 and Planet Earth.

wink

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Reply #97 posted 02/19/19 4:12pm

42Kristen

eye

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Reply #98 posted 02/20/19 9:31am

scratchtasia

Someone asked before, but I haven't seen a real response: has anyone compared the old CDs to the new CDs, in terms of audio quality? Are the new CDs remastered? Are they brickwalled? I'm not talking about the vinyl reissues--strictly CDs.

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Reply #99 posted 02/20/19 9:37am

scratchtasia

Chart-wise, on the just-published Billboard Vinyl Albums chart (pure sales of vinyl LPs), Musicology debuted at #3, 3121 came in at #7, and Planet Earth is #11. (Purple Rain, a steady catalog seller on vinyl, is still #14.)

On the
Top Album Sales chart (combining sales of LPs, CDs, and digital), Musicology is #59, 3121 is #80, and Planet Earth is #87.

None of them are on the Billboard 200, which is the traditional album chart, but it's based heavily on streaming bullshit now. (So now, thanks to streaming, you get A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie at #1 a few weeks ago despite a reported 823 digital sales and no physical release.)

It makes sense that these albums would do best on the Vinyl Albums chart, because they are new to that format.


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Reply #100 posted 02/21/19 7:41am

darkroman

scratchtasia said:

Someone asked before, but I haven't seen a real response: has anyone compared the old CDs to the new CDs, in terms of audio quality? Are the new CDs remastered? Are they brickwalled? I'm not talking about the vinyl reissues--strictly CDs.

I have done some comparisons.

Musicology is now at the same volume as the other two as previously it was really quite low in comparison - very evident when marking playlists.

When comparing the wave forms of the 2019 releases, all have good peaks and troughs but they all max out the meters at the top end - but they do not sound distorted.

Other than musicology I haven't compared the wave forms of the new ones to the old ones yet. However, when I compared the sound of the audio, I couldn't hear any differences, other than, as said, Musicology has been boosted to 0DB.

I have compared the new releases to some of my other recently reissued and remastered CD and not found any great differences in the wave forms.

wink







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Reply #101 posted 02/21/19 8:15am

darkroman

Some more adverts doing the rounds:








wink

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Reply #102 posted 02/21/19 9:50pm

RODSERLING

PURPLEIZED3121 said:



RODSERLING said:


These reissues charted nowhere in the world, even in subcharts. Unless someone prove me wrong. Not even In the top 40 UK vinyl charts Ouch


google it mate.


You seem to have a very unhealthy obession with sales figures & chart positions...kind of the BVH of stats!


3 years on from P passing...probably best to just let it go?



What else is interesting with these reissues other than charts positions?
No booklets added, no remastering, no new tracks, no b sides, no promotion...
.
If these reissues doesn't sell, there will be not enough rooms for other reissues.
.
Sony seems disappointed with even pre-ordered sales.
They were Supposed to release 3 albums each months (or one triple album, etc.) Now it s clear they changed their mind and they were waiting to see how well Musicology, PE and 3121 would sell to adjust printing of the next CDs/vinyls.
.
The fact that Rave was supposed to be released on march,8, and now pushed back to April, 26, tells a lot. It also means there would be nothing released on may.
In June, for Prince anniversary, there would probably be no reissues too, since the estate would probably launch the Tidal album this month.
.
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Reply #103 posted 02/22/19 12:57am

NorthC

If Sony wants these releases to sell better, they should do something about the price!
I was in my local record store yesterday asking about them and the guy said: they're too expensive! So he didn't have them in stock because he didn't think he was going to sell them at €40-45. That's a lot of money. And that three times! A double LP usually costs around €30.
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Reply #104 posted 02/23/19 6:42pm

johnnyribcage

NorthC said:

If Sony wants these releases to sell better, they should do something about the price!
I was in my local record store yesterday asking about them and the guy said: they're too expensive! So he didn't have them in stock because he didn't think he was going to sell them at €40-45. That's a lot of money. And that three times! A double LP usually costs around €30.


Sweet holy pogo-sticking mackerel, man! You gotta find a new record store! That or learn how to internet better. These things are like $30 tops in local stores in the States. They’re around $27 on Amazon. So they should be even less in euros.

In other words, they cost exactly the same as pretty much every other standard (ie non-mofi or whatever) release.

And folks complaining about not having extra goodies and books... if you’re a vinyl guy (or gal), having the music on vinyl IS the extra goodie.
Bob... Ain't dat a bitch?
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Reply #105 posted 02/24/19 2:08am

feeluupp

avatar

RODSERLING said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

google it mate.

You seem to have a very unhealthy obession with sales figures & chart positions...kind of the BVH of stats!

3 years on from P passing...probably best to just let it go?

What else is interesting with these reissues other than charts positions? No booklets added, no remastering, no new tracks, no b sides, no promotion... . If these reissues doesn't sell, there will be not enough rooms for other reissues. . Sony seems disappointed with even pre-ordered sales. They were Supposed to release 3 albums each months (or one triple album, etc.) Now it s clear they changed their mind and they were waiting to see how well Musicology, PE and 3121 would sell to adjust printing of the next CDs/vinyls. . The fact that Rave was supposed to be released on march,8, and now pushed back to April, 26, tells a lot. It also means there would be nothing released on may. In June, for Prince anniversary, there would probably be no reissues too, since the estate would probably launch the Tidal album this month. .

OFC these won't sell... They barely sold anything when he was alive... Don't forget RAVE was a huge flop especially in the U.K.

They just re release with nothing new to add on, who will buy these? The few thousand 40 and 50 year old Prince fans sitting at their cubicle at work...

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Reply #106 posted 02/24/19 11:15pm

RODSERLING

feeluupp said:



RODSERLING said:


PURPLEIZED3121 said:



google it mate.


You seem to have a very unhealthy obession with sales figures & chart positions...kind of the BVH of stats!


3 years on from P passing...probably best to just let it go?



What else is interesting with these reissues other than charts positions? No booklets added, no remastering, no new tracks, no b sides, no promotion... . If these reissues doesn't sell, there will be not enough rooms for other reissues. . Sony seems disappointed with even pre-ordered sales. They were Supposed to release 3 albums each months (or one triple album, etc.) Now it s clear they changed their mind and they were waiting to see how well Musicology, PE and 3121 would sell to adjust printing of the next CDs/vinyls. . The fact that Rave was supposed to be released on march,8, and now pushed back to April, 26, tells a lot. It also means there would be nothing released on may. In June, for Prince anniversary, there would probably be no reissues too, since the estate would probably launch the Tidal album this month. .


OFC these won't sell... They barely sold anything when he was alive... Don't forget RAVE was a huge flop especially in the U.K.




They just re release with nothing new to add on, who will buy these? The few thousand 40 and 50 year old Prince fans sitting at their cubicle at work...


IIRC it was legal issues that prevented Rave to be released/to chart in the UK, and charted only thanks to import sales.
.
Like I said 3 years ago, it was when Prince died these albums had a chance to sell.
What was the point of not printing them anymore? Nobody wanted to make money?
What is the point now that the physical market is dying to re release them without bonus content?
Not necessarily unreleased, but bonus content (b sides, live, etc.) Who hold onto these rights ? They re all absurd people.
.
In the UK vinyl charts, there are not even in the top 40 for their second week of release !
.
It was supposed to be 3 releases a month, I suppose they changed their plan. Maybe for the next rereleases (likely in June or September) they will choose unreleased physical records such as Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse, One night Alone...To see if they do better chartwise.
.
And I think things such as the expensive Emancipation 6 vinyl set will never see the light of the day lol
[Edited 2/24/19 23:17pm]
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Reply #107 posted 02/25/19 1:01am

feeluupp

avatar

RODSERLING said:

feeluupp said:

OFC these won't sell... They barely sold anything when he was alive... Don't forget RAVE was a huge flop especially in the U.K.

They just re release with nothing new to add on, who will buy these? The few thousand 40 and 50 year old Prince fans sitting at their cubicle at work...

IIRC it was legal issues that prevented Rave to be released/to chart in the UK, and charted only thanks to import sales. . Like I said 3 years ago, it was when Prince died these albums had a chance to sell. What was the point of not printing them anymore? Nobody wanted to make money? What is the point now that the physical market is dying to re release them without bonus content? Not necessarily unreleased, but bonus content (b sides, live, etc.) Who hold onto these rights ? They re all absurd people. . In the UK vinyl charts, there are not even in the top 40 for their second week of release ! . It was supposed to be 3 releases a month, I suppose they changed their plan. Maybe for the next rereleases (likely in June or September) they will choose unreleased physical records such as Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse, One night Alone...To see if they do better chartwise. . And I think things such as the expensive Emancipation 6 vinyl set will never see the light of the day lol [Edited 2/24/19 23:17pm]

Because Prince died with no will! There was no deals on who could distribute those type of albums at the present TIME. Sony just got the deal now, but as stated doesn't have access to the Vault until 2021.

So it's more complex then the way you describe it, it was simply not the issue of he died and nobody wanted to release these...

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Reply #108 posted 02/25/19 9:40am

RODSERLING

feeluupp said:



RODSERLING said:


feeluupp said:



OFC these won't sell... They barely sold anything when he was alive... Don't forget RAVE was a huge flop especially in the U.K.




They just re release with nothing new to add on, who will buy these? The few thousand 40 and 50 year old Prince fans sitting at their cubicle at work...



IIRC it was legal issues that prevented Rave to be released/to chart in the UK, and charted only thanks to import sales. . Like I said 3 years ago, it was when Prince died these albums had a chance to sell. What was the point of not printing them anymore? Nobody wanted to make money? What is the point now that the physical market is dying to re release them without bonus content? Not necessarily unreleased, but bonus content (b sides, live, etc.) Who hold onto these rights ? They re all absurd people. . In the UK vinyl charts, there are not even in the top 40 for their second week of release ! . It was supposed to be 3 releases a month, I suppose they changed their plan. Maybe for the next rereleases (likely in June or September) they will choose unreleased physical records such as Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse, One night Alone...To see if they do better chartwise. . And I think things such as the expensive Emancipation 6 vinyl set will never see the light of the day lol [Edited 2/24/19 23:17pm]


Because Prince died with no will! There was no deals on who could distribute those type of albums at the present TIME. Sony just got the deal now, but as stated doesn't have access to the Vault until 2021.



So it's more complex then the way you describe it, it was simply not the issue of he died and nobody wanted to release these...


What does a will have to do with printing albums already released?
Why in 2016 Sony couldn't print, let s say, Musicology and Planet Earth?
Why Universal couldn't print 3121?
.
There was always somebody legally in charge of the estate. Was it temporarily the bank of America in the beginning? I can't remember.
When Prince died, every claimers of the estate (Prince brothers and Sisters, lawyers, people claiming paternity, etc.) Should have sign an agreement "let s make money first, and we will see after who is really in charge". It would have been in everyone interest.
.
And frankly, let s imagine this "extreme" scenario : In the wake of Prince s death, WB reprint the Black album. How shocking is that !
Who would have the interest to sue WB?
The future estate?
And why exactly?
Because WB make the estate earn the money from the sales of the album ?
An album that, 3 years after Prince s death, is still part of no deal : neither with WB, nor with Sony (!), Not even digitally, not even in streaming !
That s the most absurd situation ever.
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Reply #109 posted 02/25/19 10:21am

feeluupp

avatar

RODSERLING said:

feeluupp said:

Because Prince died with no will! There was no deals on who could distribute those type of albums at the present TIME. Sony just got the deal now, but as stated doesn't have access to the Vault until 2021.

So it's more complex then the way you describe it, it was simply not the issue of he died and nobody wanted to release these...

What does a will have to do with printing albums already released? Why in 2016 Sony couldn't print, let s say, Musicology and Planet Earth? Why Universal couldn't print 3121? . There was always somebody legally in charge of the estate. Was it temporarily the bank of America in the beginning? I can't remember. When Prince died, every claimers of the estate (Prince brothers and Sisters, lawyers, people claiming paternity, etc.) Should have sign an agreement "let s make money first, and we will see after who is really in charge". It would have been in everyone interest. . And frankly, let s imagine this "extreme" scenario : In the wake of Prince s death, WB reprint the Black album. How shocking is that ! Who would have the interest to sue WB? The future estate? And why exactly? Because WB make the estate earn the money from the sales of the album ? An album that, 3 years after Prince s death, is still part of no deal : neither with WB, nor with Sony (!), Not even digitally, not even in streaming ! That s the most absurd situation ever.

No deals were in place during that time... Cormeica, the estate, everything was in chaos... Don't forget a week later the estate went after TIDAL for uploading unauthorized albums.

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Reply #110 posted 02/25/19 10:58am

scratchtasia

darkroman said:

scratchtasia said:

Someone asked before, but I haven't seen a real response: has anyone compared the old CDs to the new CDs, in terms of audio quality? Are the new CDs remastered? Are they brickwalled? I'm not talking about the vinyl reissues--strictly CDs.

I have done some comparisons.

Musicology is now at the same volume as the other two as previously it was really quite low in comparison - very evident when marking playlists.

When comparing the wave forms of the 2019 releases, all have good peaks and troughs but they all max out the meters at the top end - but they do not sound distorted.

Other than musicology I haven't compared the wave forms of the new ones to the old ones yet. However, when I compared the sound of the audio, I couldn't hear any differences, other than, as said, Musicology has been boosted to 0DB.

I have compared the new releases to some of my other recently reissued and remastered CD and not found any great differences in the wave forms.


Thanks for the info! I'd be curious about new-to-old waveform comparisons of the other two albums, if you or anyone else wants to take that on.

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Reply #111 posted 02/25/19 3:42pm

RODSERLING

feeluupp said:



RODSERLING said:


feeluupp said:



Because Prince died with no will! There was no deals on who could distribute those type of albums at the present TIME. Sony just got the deal now, but as stated doesn't have access to the Vault until 2021.



So it's more complex then the way you describe it, it was simply not the issue of he died and nobody wanted to release these...



What does a will have to do with printing albums already released? Why in 2016 Sony couldn't print, let s say, Musicology and Planet Earth? Why Universal couldn't print 3121? . There was always somebody legally in charge of the estate. Was it temporarily the bank of America in the beginning? I can't remember. When Prince died, every claimers of the estate (Prince brothers and Sisters, lawyers, people claiming paternity, etc.) Should have sign an agreement "let s make money first, and we will see after who is really in charge". It would have been in everyone interest. . And frankly, let s imagine this "extreme" scenario : In the wake of Prince s death, WB reprint the Black album. How shocking is that ! Who would have the interest to sue WB? The future estate? And why exactly? Because WB make the estate earn the money from the sales of the album ? An album that, 3 years after Prince s death, is still part of no deal : neither with WB, nor with Sony (!), Not even digitally, not even in streaming ! That s the most absurd situation ever.


No deals were in place during that time... Cormeica, the estate, everything was in chaos... Don't forget a week later the estate went after TIDAL for uploading unauthorized albums.


That doesn't answer any questions I asked.
Why Sony couldn't Print Musicology etc. Etc.
.....
...
Who cared if WB reprinted the Black album etc.etc.
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Reply #112 posted 02/25/19 4:09pm

liltalkm

johnnyribcage said:[quote]

NorthC said:

having the music on vinyl IS the extra goodie.



BINGO!
Cause tomorrow is taking too long
and yesterday's too far away
and the reality that you believe in begins to bind.
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Reply #113 posted 02/25/19 9:21pm

feeluupp

avatar

RODSERLING said:

feeluupp said:

No deals were in place during that time... Cormeica, the estate, everything was in chaos... Don't forget a week later the estate went after TIDAL for uploading unauthorized albums.

That doesn't answer any questions I asked. Why Sony couldn't Print Musicology etc. Etc. ..... ... Who cared if WB reprinted the Black album etc.etc.

Huh, I told you Sony didn't have the rights to those albums at that time!! He just died, there was no sony deal!! It was going to be a deal with universal but when they realized they wouldn't have access to the vaults until 2021 they decided to withdraw the deal.

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Reply #114 posted 02/26/19 12:58am

embmmusic

avatar

feeluupp said:

RODSERLING said:

feeluupp said: That doesn't answer any questions I asked. Why Sony couldn't Print Musicology etc. Etc. ..... ... Who cared if WB reprinted the Black album etc.etc.

Huh, I told you Sony didn't have the rights to those albums at that time!! He just died, there was no sony deal!! It was going to be a deal with universal but when they realized they wouldn't have access to the vaults until 2021 they decided to withdraw the deal.

I think he's talking about the fact that those albums were originally published by Sony. However, it was just a limited time-span publishing deal and Prince still owned the rights to them.

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #115 posted 02/26/19 2:24am

RODSERLING

embmmusic said:



feeluupp said:




RODSERLING said:


feeluupp said: That doesn't answer any questions I asked. Why Sony couldn't Print Musicology etc. Etc. ..... ... Who cared if WB reprinted the Black album etc.etc.


Huh, I told you Sony didn't have the rights to those albums at that time!! He just died, there was no sony deal!! It was going to be a deal with universal but when they realized they wouldn't have access to the vaults until 2021 they decided to withdraw the deal.






I think he's talking about the fact that those albums were originally published by Sony. However, it was just a limited time-span publishing deal and Prince still owned the rights to them.



Yes, and who would have had the interest to sue Sony to reprint Musicology (for instance)?
.
That's my question.
In clear, since nobody for the last 3 years made money off the album, what was the point of not reprinting it?
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Reply #116 posted 02/26/19 4:16am

Kares

avatar

RODSERLING said:

embmmusic said:

I think he's talking about the fact that those albums were originally published by Sony. However, it was just a limited time-span publishing deal and Prince still owned the rights to them.

Yes, and who would have had the interest to sue Sony to reprint Musicology (for instance)? . That's my question. In clear, since nobody for the last 3 years made money off the album, what was the point of not reprinting it?

.

Why is it too hard for you to understand that Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth were owned by Prince, he only signed distribution deals for their original release, and those deals are always limited to a certain time-period? Sony did NOT have the rights to reprint them after the initial agreement expired, they have only gained distribution rights again very recently.
.
You seriously think that a company like Sony would just risk pirating a Prince release without an agreement with the estate? Of course they would've been sued immediately – and such a move would have cost them the chance of any succesful deals in the future.
.

Regarding the Black Album: it is quite well documented that Prince only gave Warners the rights to release it in 1994, but again, that was also a time-limited deal. After that limited edition sold out, Warners did NOT have the rights to release it again. The Black Album is most probably still owned by the estate and its possible re-release (incl. digital distribution rights) is yet to be negotiated.
.

[Edited 2/26/19 4:19am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #117 posted 02/26/19 4:48am

RODSERLING

Kares said:



RODSERLING said:


embmmusic said:


I think he's talking about the fact that those albums were originally published by Sony. However, it was just a limited time-span publishing deal and Prince still owned the rights to them.



Yes, and who would have had the interest to sue Sony to reprint Musicology (for instance)? . That's my question. In clear, since nobody for the last 3 years made money off the album, what was the point of not reprinting it?

.


Why is it too hard for you to understand that Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth were owned by Prince, he only signed distribution deals for their original release, and those deals are always limited to a certain time-period? Sony did NOT have the rights to reprint them after the initial agreement expired, they have only gained distribution rights again very recently.
.
You seriously think that a company like Sony would just risk pirating a Prince release without an agreement with the estate? Of course they would've been sued immediately – and such a move would have cost them the chance of any succesful deals in the future.
.


Regarding the Black Album: it is quite well documented that Prince only gave Warners the rights to release it in 1994, but again, that was also a time-limited deal. After that limited edition sold out, Warners did NOT have the rights to release it again. The Black Album is most probably still owned by the estate and its possible re-release (incl. digital distribution rights) is yet to be negotiated.
.


[Edited 2/26/19 4:19am]



I know we'll the deal was limited to the time of the promotion of the album. I discussed that numerous time here, despite some contradictors claiming it was available in stores like ten years, or other trolls claiming Sony or Universal or WB just didn't care of these albums.
.
What I ask, is why the estate (Comerica, Tyka, lawyers, etc.) would have had the interest to sue Sony which was engaged by Prince to distribute his albums?
Sony print and distribute the albums, and the estate make money.
.
Why an agreement for a limited period of time/ copies wasn't found in emergency, before everything was settled for good?
.
What is the interest of the estate to not make money from these albums before the momentum of Prince death was gone?
Surely they knew the market and fans were shrinking year after year?
.
[Edited 2/26/19 4:50am]
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Reply #118 posted 02/26/19 5:42am

Kares

avatar

RODSERLING said:

Kares said:

.

Why is it too hard for you to understand that Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth were owned by Prince, he only signed distribution deals for their original release, and those deals are always limited to a certain time-period? Sony did NOT have the rights to reprint them after the initial agreement expired, they have only gained distribution rights again very recently.
.
You seriously think that a company like Sony would just risk pirating a Prince release without an agreement with the estate? Of course they would've been sued immediately – and such a move would have cost them the chance of any succesful deals in the future.
.

Regarding the Black Album: it is quite well documented that Prince only gave Warners the rights to release it in 1994, but again, that was also a time-limited deal. After that limited edition sold out, Warners did NOT have the rights to release it again. The Black Album is most probably still owned by the estate and its possible re-release (incl. digital distribution rights) is yet to be negotiated.
.

[Edited 2/26/19 4:19am]

I know we'll the deal was limited to the time of the promotion of the album. I discussed that numerous time here, despite some contradictors claiming it was available in stores like ten years, or other trolls claiming Sony or Universal or WB just didn't care of these albums. . What I ask, is why the estate (Comerica, Tyka, lawyers, etc.) would have had the interest to sue Sony which was engaged by Prince to distribute his albums? Sony print and distribute the albums, and the estate make money. . Why an agreement for a limited period of time/ copies wasn't found in emergency, before everything was settled for good? . What is the interest of the estate to not make money from these albums before the momentum of Prince death was gone? Surely they knew the market and fans were shrinking year after year? . [Edited 2/26/19 4:50am]

.
You don't understand how the music industry and its market works, I'm afraid. When a distribution deal expires (and similarly: when a licensing-deal for even just one song on a compilation album expires), the record company must immediately cease selling the product in question. That means that any leftover stock is called back from their dealers: the shops and distributors they are in direct contact with – but they can only call back stock that hasn't been paid for. If a store has already bought some stock, then it is theirs and they are free to continue selling it or free to just sit on it for as long as they want to, in case they're hoping its market value will go up (but that's always a gamble of course).
The record company can chose to destroy the remaining stock that they've been able to recall, or they can chose to sell it off as cutouts to an independent dealer at a fraction of the PPE.
.
But of course there can be many stores worldwide who could still have remaining copies that they've already bought either directly from the record company or through various channels. When I was working for one of the best independent record stores in the world in 1989-1990, we had some original stock even from the '60s! I was thrilled to be able to serve some customers who were asking about an obscure release from '67, for example, that was long deleted and never got reprinted – and seeing their face when I pulled out an original, sealed copy in 1990! So yes, of course it is not impossible that you can still run into unsold original releases of 3121 or Musicology or even the Black Album in some corners of the world, but that doesn't mean that they are officially available.
.
Your questions regarding why a company such as Sony didn't risk issuing a pirate release – or why the estate, with its owners yet to be defined by court for quite some time after April 2016 didn't just rush into signing legally very risky one-off deals with Sony are childish and show a total lack of understanding how the business world works.
.

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Reply #119 posted 02/26/19 11:19am

RODSERLING

Kares said:



RODSERLING said:



Kares said:


.


Why is it too hard for you to understand that Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth were owned by Prince, he only signed distribution deals for their original release, and those deals are always limited to a certain time-period? Sony did NOT have the rights to reprint them after the initial agreement expired, they have only gained distribution rights again very recently.
.
You seriously think that a company like Sony would just risk pirating a Prince release without an agreement with the estate? Of course they would've been sued immediately – and such a move would have cost them the chance of any succesful deals in the future.
.


Regarding the Black Album: it is quite well documented that Prince only gave Warners the rights to release it in 1994, but again, that was also a time-limited deal. After that limited edition sold out, Warners did NOT have the rights to release it again. The Black Album is most probably still owned by the estate and its possible re-release (incl. digital distribution rights) is yet to be negotiated.
.



[Edited 2/26/19 4:19am]



I know we'll the deal was limited to the time of the promotion of the album. I discussed that numerous time here, despite some contradictors claiming it was available in stores like ten years, or other trolls claiming Sony or Universal or WB just didn't care of these albums. . What I ask, is why the estate (Comerica, Tyka, lawyers, etc.) would have had the interest to sue Sony which was engaged by Prince to distribute his albums? Sony print and distribute the albums, and the estate make money. . Why an agreement for a limited period of time/ copies wasn't found in emergency, before everything was settled for good? . What is the interest of the estate to not make money from these albums before the momentum of Prince death was gone? Surely they knew the market and fans were shrinking year after year? . [Edited 2/26/19 4:50am]

.
You don't understand how the music industry and its market works, I'm afraid. When a distribution deal expires (and similarly: when a licensing-deal for even just one song on a compilation album expires), the record company must immediately cease selling the product in question. That means that any leftover stock is called back from their dealers: the shops and distributors they are in direct contact with – but they can only call back stock that hasn't been paid for. If a store has already bought some stock, then it is theirs and they are free to continue selling it or free to just sit on it for as long as they want to, in case they're hoping its market value will go up (but that's always a gamble of course).
The record company can chose to destroy the remaining stock that they've been able to recall, or they can chose to sell it off as cutouts to an independent dealer at a fraction of the PPE.
.
But of course there can be many stores worldwide who could still have remaining copies that they've already bought either directly from the record company or through various channels. When I was working for one of the best independent record stores in the world in 1989-1990, we had some original stock even from the '60s! I was thrilled to be able to serve some customers who were asking about an obscure release from '67, for example, that was long deleted and never got reprinted – and seeing their face when I pulled out an original, sealed copy in 1990! So yes, of course it is not impossible that you can still run into unsold original releases of 3121 or Musicology or even the Black Album in some corners of the world, but that doesn't mean that they are officially available.
.
Your questions regarding why a company such as Sony didn't risk issuing a pirate release – or why the estate, with its owners yet to be defined by court for quite some time after April 2016 didn't just rush into signing legally very risky one-off deals with Sony are childish and show a total lack of understanding how the business world works.
.





Lol I understand that very well, of course they hadn't legally the right to print these albums, and they had a limited license, I m saying that here for years, and I can tell you that wasn't the major opinion here.
.
I m sorry but you still didn't answer the question(s): why the estate would have had the interest to sue Sony to print Musicology?
It would have been the best choice for the estate since they already printed and distributed it...And now, only 3 years later, oh well, they are finally reprinting it, losing for all parties involved all these years of potential sales, 90% of it being in the wake of Prince's death.
.
So why the estate didn't authorize like I said, at least temporarily, in the wake of Prince's death, these labels to reprint what they had already printed before, share the money while they could make itbfrom high demand, and see after to redistribute the cake to others parties for eventual re releases?

.
Especially when the estate had to pay like 100 millions Dollar s of taxes the following year !
That would have been the most logical and rational choice for the estate : make money.
.
They are now, even 3 years after, in the most absurd situation where nobody even have the rights to make money from the black album!
.
When MJ died, many dvd bootlegged ( live in Japan, etc.) Made the charts worldwide. Who sued the company ? Nobody, and every wreckastore were happy to sell it for years !
.
So, the estate allowed it, the record stores allowed it, and more incredibly, even the official charts allowed it; for years!
.
So don't patronise me " that s the way it works" because, it only works with money and everybody knows it.
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I still find many Prince live bootleg sold officially in stores !
.
By the way, your anecdote about the 1967 album still under plastic was great !
I found myself Pandemonium at 10 bucks on a wreckastore last month, only God knows what it was doing there!
.
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