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Thread started 08/14/19 2:16pm

CinnamonBone

Original white cloud guitar

What happened to the original white cloud guitar from "Purple Rain"?

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Reply #1 posted 08/14/19 4:01pm

joyinrepetitio
n

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CinnamonBone said:

What happened to the original white cloud guitar from "Purple Rain"?

If I'm not mistakened, 2 whites ones were made and Prince destroyed both of them in the final concert with the Revolution in Japan in late 1986. Subsequent clouds were made and repainted over the years.

__________________________________________________
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Reply #2 posted 08/14/19 6:03pm

eugenius

joyinrepetition said:

CinnamonBone said:

What happened to the original white cloud guitar from "Purple Rain"?

If I'm not mistakened, 2 whites ones were made and Prince destroyed both of them in the final concert with the Revolution in Japan in late 1986. Subsequent clouds were made and repainted over the years.

He destroyed both of them? I always thought it was just the one he played during the finale. If he went out of his way to destroy both, there's a lot of symbolism there, subliminal or not. He wanted the Purple Rain era to end at that show.

.
Destroying the "Purple Rain" guitar he was playing, Pete Townsend-style is one thing, but going out of his way to find the second, identical Cloud guitar in the wings of the stage and destroying that one was sending a message, if not to the Revolution, then to himself. I've heard the audio boot, but I wish there was video of it. Actually, there probably is video of it considering Prince video'd every performance. I'm sure a few Prince hoarders have video, but normal fans will never see it.

[Edited 8/14/19 18:06pm]

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Reply #3 posted 08/14/19 9:07pm

airth

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eugenius said:

joyinrepetition said:

If I'm not mistakened, 2 whites ones were made and Prince destroyed both of them in the final concert with the Revolution in Japan in late 1986. Subsequent clouds were made and repainted over the years.

He destroyed both of them? I always thought it was just the one he played during the finale. If he went out of his way to destroy both, there's a lot of symbolism there, subliminal or not. He wanted the Purple Rain era to end at that show.

.
Destroying the "Purple Rain" guitar he was playing, Pete Townsend-style is one thing, but going out of his way to find the second, identical Cloud guitar in the wings of the stage and destroying that one was sending a message, if not to the Revolution, then to himself. I've heard the audio boot, but I wish there was video of it. Actually, there probably is video of it considering Prince video'd every performance. I'm sure a few Prince hoarders have video, but normal fans will never see it.

[Edited 8/14/19 18:06pm]


You can find the final 10 mins of the concert on YouTube. It's a wobbly audience recording of the video screen, but it's still an interesting watch. You can see him throw the first guitar to the ground, pick up the next one and play it a little before smashing it down. He was clearly emotional that night.


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Reply #4 posted 08/15/19 4:01am

coldasice

Yep...he bodied them both.
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Reply #5 posted 08/15/19 7:09am

tishal

I read where he was soooo very tired of that tour - it does not surprse me to end this way.

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Reply #6 posted 08/15/19 7:31am

cb70

And then he came back after that tour and recorded some of the best music of his career. He was on fire from September '86 through to the end of the year.

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Reply #7 posted 08/15/19 7:48am

emesem

cb70 said:

And then he came back after that tour and recorded some of the best music of his career. He was on fire from September '86 through to the end of the year.

Except for the "Sign of the Times" itself I belive most of SOTT was already recorded/written before Sept 86.

"So strange that no one stayed, at the end of the Parade"

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Reply #8 posted 08/15/19 8:03am

Neversin

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There were four original white "Cloud" guitars...
WBR had one for some competition and Prince had three: one for use in the movie and two extras for the tour...
The first one made by Dave Rusan was the fully functional prop seen in the movie; Prince liked that one so much he ordered two more for the tour; Dave made three new ones: two for Prince and one ordered by WBR for said competition; noone seems to know where it went or who won it...

The three white "Cloud" guitars Prince had were all identical except for one point: the fret markers on the 12th fret; the original movie "Cloud" had the two spade markers at the normal distance/position, the second "Cloud" had the markers slightly closer to each other and the third "Cloud" had the markers right next to each other...
This was of course so that Prince and his techs could distinguish them from each other...

For the Parade Tour Prince had a new one built from scratch: the black with maple neck one...
At the last show of the Parade Tour Prince smashed white "Cloud" two and three and had both of them sent to Knut Koupee to have them fully repaired and repainted; white "Cloud" one was kept as is, (minor) damages and all and was last seen at the 2001 Celebration near the vault...
Black/maple cloud was years later repainted completely black with Batman fret markers...
White "Cloud" number two was repainted peach and white "Cloud" three was "misplaced"/stolen after repairs...

For the Sign "O" The Times Tour Prince had Joel Bernstein create a second peach "Cloud" (by someone?); the two peach coloured guitars only had one difference and that was the colour of the pick-up switch; the original white "Cloud" that was painted peach had the white cap on the switch and the newly built peach "Cloud" had just the gold switch (it didn't have a coloured cap...) again to distinguish them from each other...
The white capped peach "Cloud" (which was original white "Cloud" number two) found a new home in The Netherlands in 1991 and the newly built peach "Cloud" was repainted numerous time for subsequent tours...

All this info was gathered over the years from various employees of Knut Koupee, Joel Bernstein and numerous other guitar techs that worked on the tours...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #9 posted 08/15/19 8:54am

eugenius

airth said:

eugenius said:

He destroyed both of them? I always thought it was just the one he played during the finale. If he went out of his way to destroy both, there's a lot of symbolism there, subliminal or not. He wanted the Purple Rain era to end at that show.

.
Destroying the "Purple Rain" guitar he was playing, Pete Townsend-style is one thing, but going out of his way to find the second, identical Cloud guitar in the wings of the stage and destroying that one was sending a message, if not to the Revolution, then to himself. I've heard the audio boot, but I wish there was video of it. Actually, there probably is video of it considering Prince video'd every performance. I'm sure a few Prince hoarders have video, but normal fans will never see it.

[Edited 8/14/19 18:06pm]


You can find the final 10 mins of the concert on YouTube. It's a wobbly audience recording of the video screen, but it's still an interesting watch. You can see him throw the first guitar to the ground, pick up the next one and play it a little before smashing it down. He was clearly emotional that night.


I don't know who you are airth, but I'm in your debt for life. I've wanted to see that footage for decades. Off to YouTube, and again, thanks for pointing those of us who haven't seen it, in the right direction. We speak your name... airth!

Why is it so difficult to upload an avatar?
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Reply #10 posted 08/15/19 9:04am

eugenius

Neversin said:

There were four original white "Cloud" guitars...
WBR had one for some competition and Prince had three: one for use in the movie and two extras for the tour...
The first one made by Dave Rusan was the fully functional prop seen in the movie; Prince liked that one so much he ordered two more for the tour; Dave made three new ones: two for Prince and one ordered by WBR for said competition; noone seems to know where it went or who won it...

The three white "Cloud" guitars Prince had were all identical except for one point: the fret markers on the 12th fret; the original movie "Cloud" had the two spade markers at the normal distance/position, the second "Cloud" had the markers slightly closer to each other and the third "Cloud" had the markers right next to each other...
This was of course so that Prince and his techs could distinguish them from each other...

For the Parade Tour Prince had a new one built from scratch: the black with maple neck one...
At the last show of the Parade Tour Prince smashed white "Cloud" two and three and had both of them sent to Knut Koupee to have them fully repaired and repainted; white "Cloud" one was kept as is, (minor) damages and all and was last seen at the 2001 Celebration near the vault...
Black/maple cloud was years later repainted completely black with Batman fret markers...
White "Cloud" number two was repainted peach and white "Cloud" three was "misplaced"/stolen after repairs...

For the Sign "O" The Times Tour Prince had Joel Bernstein create a second peach "Cloud" (by someone?); the two peach coloured guitars only had one difference and that was the colour of the pick-up switch; the original white "Cloud" that was painted peach had the white cap on the switch and the newly built peach "Cloud" had just the gold switch (it didn't have a coloured cap...) again to distinguish them from each other...
The white capped peach "Cloud" (which was original white "Cloud" number two) found a new home in The Netherlands in 1991 and the newly built peach "Cloud" was repainted numerous time for subsequent tours...

All this info was gathered over the years from various employees of Knut Koupee, Joel Bernstein and numerous other guitar techs that worked on the tours...

Neversin.

Amazing information, Neversin -- thanks. I always wondered how many Clounds were out there. I also wonder who won #1 and who swiped #3.

Why is it so difficult to upload an avatar?
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Reply #11 posted 08/15/19 10:39am

PRNelson

eugenius said:



Neversin said:


There were four original white "Cloud" guitars...
WBR had one for some competition and Prince had three: one for use in the movie and two extras for the tour...
The first one made by Dave Rusan was the fully functional prop seen in the movie; Prince liked that one so much he ordered two more for the tour; Dave made three new ones: two for Prince and one ordered by WBR for said competition; noone seems to know where it went or who won it...


The three white "Cloud" guitars Prince had were all identical except for one point: the fret markers on the 12th fret; the original movie "Cloud" had the two spade markers at the normal distance/position, the second "Cloud" had the markers slightly closer to each other and the third "Cloud" had the markers right next to each other...
This was of course so that Prince and his techs could distinguish them from each other...

For the Parade Tour Prince had a new one built from scratch: the black with maple neck one...
At the last show of the Parade Tour Prince smashed white "Cloud" two and three and had both of them sent to Knut Koupee to have them fully repaired and repainted; white "Cloud" one was kept as is, (minor) damages and all and was last seen at the 2001 Celebration near the vault...
Black/maple cloud was years later repainted completely black with Batman fret markers...
White "Cloud" number two was repainted peach and white "Cloud" three was "misplaced"/stolen after repairs...

For the Sign "O" The Times Tour Prince had Joel Bernstein create a second peach "Cloud" (by someone?); the two peach coloured guitars only had one difference and that was the colour of the pick-up switch; the original white "Cloud" that was painted peach had the white cap on the switch and the newly built peach "Cloud" had just the gold switch (it didn't have a coloured cap...) again to distinguish them from each other...
The white capped peach "Cloud" (which was original white "Cloud" number two) found a new home in The Netherlands in 1991 and the newly built peach "Cloud" was repainted numerous time for subsequent tours...

All this info was gathered over the years from various employees of Knut Koupee, Joel Bernstein and numerous other guitar techs that worked on the tours...

Neversin.




Amazing information, Neversin -- thanks. I always wondered how many Clounds were out there. I also wonder who won #1 and who swiped #3.



Definately. We should appreciate those amongst us who are both knowledgable and willing to impart their knowledge with us. Much appreciated.
You'll never know a girl called Nikki and you'll never find Erotic City
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Reply #12 posted 08/15/19 10:40am

PRNelson

eugenius said:



airth said:




eugenius said:




He destroyed both of them? I always thought it was just the one he played during the finale. If he went out of his way to destroy both, there's a lot of symbolism there, subliminal or not. He wanted the Purple Rain era to end at that show.


.
Destroying the "Purple Rain" guitar he was playing, Pete Townsend-style is one thing, but going out of his way to find the second, identical Cloud guitar in the wings of the stage and destroying that one was sending a message, if not to the Revolution, then to himself. I've heard the audio boot, but I wish there was video of it. Actually, there probably is video of it considering Prince video'd every performance. I'm sure a few Prince hoarders have video, but normal fans will never see it.


[Edited 8/14/19 18:06pm]




You can find the final 10 mins of the concert on YouTube. It's a wobbly audience recording of the video screen, but it's still an interesting watch. You can see him throw the first guitar to the ground, pick up the next one and play it a little before smashing it down. He was clearly emotional that night.





I don't know who you are airth, but I'm in your debt for life. I've wanted to see that footage for decades. Off to YouTube, and again, thanks for pointing those of us who haven't seen it, in the right direction. We speak your name... airth!



I was keen to see this too, but was unsuccessful in finding it on youtune
You'll never know a girl called Nikki and you'll never find Erotic City
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Reply #13 posted 08/15/19 12:49pm

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

PRNelson said:

eugenius said:

I don't know who you are airth, but I'm in your debt for life. I've wanted to see that footage for decades. Off to YouTube, and again, thanks for pointing those of us who haven't seen it, in the right direction. We speak your name... airth!

I was keen to see this too, but was unsuccessful in finding it on youtune

Look for Prince Yokohama 1986

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
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Reply #14 posted 08/15/19 2:02pm

PRNelson

joyinrepetition said:



PRNelson said:


eugenius said:



I don't know who you are airth, but I'm in your debt for life. I've wanted to see that footage for decades. Off to YouTube, and again, thanks for pointing those of us who haven't seen it, in the right direction. We speak your name... airth!



I was keen to see this too, but was unsuccessful in finding it on youtune

Look for Prince Yokohama 1986



Thanks for your help
You'll never know a girl called Nikki and you'll never find Erotic City
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Reply #15 posted 08/15/19 3:09pm

ian

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Awesome writeup Neversin! The only bit that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is the comment about pickup selector toggle switch cap - those are so trivially swapped out all the time, removed and stored when guitars are transported or nuts need tightened, replaced when lost, etc. I wonder if there might be a more boring answer behind that particular difference. Also they'd make for a really ineffective method for a busy guitar tech to distinguish between guitars in a hurry (also, why bother? specs were all identical, it's not like one of them was in drop D tuning or something).

One thing that I always thought was weird about these guitars... apart from the obvious... is the solid maple body. Prince was a small guy, and the guitar could so easily be made from a lighter wood, or given some weight relief. With those high output pickups you'd never know the difference.

Another question - any know which ones had a brass nut and which ones didn't? Sorry, I'm a guitar collector and builder so I dig this geeky guitar talk.

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Reply #16 posted 08/15/19 4:13pm

Neversin

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ian said:

Awesome writeup Neversin! The only bit that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is the comment about pickup selector toggle switch cap - those are so trivially swapped out all the time, removed and stored when guitars are transported or nuts need tightened, replaced when lost, etc. I wonder if there might be a more boring answer behind that particular difference. Also they'd make for a really ineffective method for a busy guitar tech to distinguish between guitars in a hurry (also, why bother? specs were all identical, it's not like one of them was in drop D tuning or something).


That's what I was told by his techs about the pickup selector switch and the difference between the two peaches...

I do know of one significant detail only his white "Clouds" had, and that the white "Cloud" that was painted peach later on had too (obviously because it used to be white "Cloud" #2) on the outside (on the truss rod cover to be precise) that the newly built peach guitar didn't have along with the white capped pickup switch and all later built (from the Blue Angel on) "Cloud" guitars also didn't have or, to be precise, had a little differently and they told me that that detail was too hard to spot from a distance because of the shiny nature of the cover...
On the inside, under the humbucker cavity and the battery cavity, there's the obvious difference between the two peach coloured guitars, but that couldn't be seen from a distance of course...

Another question - any know which ones had a brass nut and which ones didn't? Sorry, I'm a guitar collector and builder so I dig this geeky guitar talk.


All his "Cloud" guitars had brass nuts, the original 24 fret gold Auerswald prince guitar had a golden nut... All the other prince guitars had brass nuts...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #17 posted 08/18/19 11:45pm

JorisE73

PRNelson said:

eugenius said:

Amazing information, Neversin -- thanks. I always wondered how many Clounds were out there. I also wonder who won #1 and who swiped #3.

Definately. We should appreciate those amongst us who are both knowledgable and willing to impart their knowledge with us. Much appreciated.


Agreed! This is a lot of new info to me and it adds up.
I was just checking some Purple Rain tour pics and checked the 12th fret spades and there were indeed 3 versions, great to finally have some info on this!
I checked the Raspberry Beret video and it seems he's 'playing' white cloud #2 in it if I go by the 12th fret spades. thumbs up!
Also new to me is that teh peach cloud in Netherlands used to be the white cloud from taht video, awesome!


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Reply #18 posted 08/19/19 1:27am

JorisE73

Neversin said:

ian said:

Awesome writeup Neversin! The only bit that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is the comment about pickup selector toggle switch cap - those are so trivially swapped out all the time, removed and stored when guitars are transported or nuts need tightened, replaced when lost, etc. I wonder if there might be a more boring answer behind that particular difference. Also they'd make for a really ineffective method for a busy guitar tech to distinguish between guitars in a hurry (also, why bother? specs were all identical, it's not like one of them was in drop D tuning or something).


That's what I was told by his techs about the pickup selector switch and the difference between the two peaches...

I do know of one significant detail only his white "Clouds" had, and that the white "Cloud" that was painted peach later on had too (obviously because it used to be white "Cloud" #2) on the outside (on the truss rod cover to be precise) that the newly built peach guitar didn't have along with the white capped pickup switch and all later built (from the Blue Angel on) "Cloud" guitars also didn't have or, to be precise, had a little differently and they told me that that detail was too hard to spot from a distance because of the shiny nature of the cover...
On the inside, under the humbucker cavity and the battery cavity, there's the obvious difference between the two peach coloured guitars, but that couldn't be seen from a distance of course...

Another question - any know which ones had a brass nut and which ones didn't? Sorry, I'm a guitar collector and builder so I dig this geeky guitar talk.


All his "Cloud" guitars had brass nuts, the original 24 fret gold Auerswald prince guitar had a golden nut... All the other prince guitars had brass nuts...

Neversin.


I think starting with the BLue Angel the truss rod covers had a number on it so that was probably also a new build guitar or was that teh repainted second peach cloud?
The peach guitar/white cloud #2 had a spade on the cover like the other 2 white clouds.

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Reply #19 posted 08/19/19 5:59am

BartVanHemelen

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I could have sworn there was a website dedicated to the Cloud guitar, yet I cannot find it anymore.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #20 posted 08/19/19 11:35pm

JorisE73

BartVanHemelen said:

I could have sworn there was a website dedicated to the Cloud guitar, yet I cannot find it anymore.


I had a couple of very good info sites on Prince's guitars and cloud guitars but none of work anymore and none had this info about the 12th fret spades on the white cloud and that the black with maple neck cloud was a new build one.
I read on one of those sites that the black with maple neck cloud was a repainted white one with a new neck but pictures show Prince playing all three white clouds on the parade tour along with the black and maple cloud.
So this is good new info to me.


This site is the only site with some info:

http://cloudguitarcentral.blogspot.com/

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Reply #21 posted 08/20/19 3:23am

BartVanHemelen

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JorisE73 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

I could have sworn there was a website dedicated to the Cloud guitar, yet I cannot find it anymore.


I had a couple of very good info sites on Prince's guitars and cloud guitars but none of work anymore

.

If you've still got the links, can you check if perhaps they were archived @ https://web.archive.org/ ?

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #22 posted 08/20/19 3:31am

JorisE73

BartVanHemelen said:

JorisE73 said:


I had a couple of very good info sites on Prince's guitars and cloud guitars but none of work anymore

.

If you've still got the links, can you check if perhaps they were archived @ https://web.archive.org/ ?


Sadly I only still have https://www.madcat.ch/ and http://www.angelfire.com/...d_faq.html

[Edited 8/20/19 3:32am]

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